Posts by Doug Mason

13

Start and end of the "Seventy Years" according to the WTS

by Doug Mason in

the wts says that the seventy years started when a group of judeans, including jeremiah, crossed the border into egypt.

this, they say, was required since the land had to be absolutely and totally depopulated, without a human or a beast on the land.. one would thus expect that the wts would end the seventy years when the first captives crossed the border into the province of yehud.

that would mean that once again there were people on the land.. but no, the wts does not do that.

Doug Mason

“And who are more particularly, the great national body of these rising, improving, and we may trust approved Christians?

“Some will claim the Church of one nation, and some another; some will argue for spiritual Israel, whether spread among Teutonic people, or mainly confined to the British Isles and America. And who shall decide amongst them?

“None but the Great Pyramid itself. Advance we, therefore, to the great step of 1813 A. D. (i.e. at 1,813 Pyramid inches from the North, or Christian nativity, beginning) of the Grand Gallery, and inquire there what is signified.

“The step marks there, by that date, the most energetic advances made by Great Britain in its latter-day spread of the Bible, and its latter-day preaching of Christianity to all the world . . .

“What manner of people, then, ought not we of Great Britain now, of Israel in ages past, to be at this juncture of our eventful history; saved above all nations by the providence of God in a manner we have never deserved, and for divine purpose in the future, respecting which nothing but the glorious Scriptures of Inspiration can give us any sufficient or saving idea; a halcyon time, when Ephraim shall be united once more with Judah, and both shall be on the Lord’s side.”

Today, given the prevailing scepticism of modern society concerning the existence of God, it is difficult to appreciate the powerful influence the idea that they were really Israelites in disguise had on Britons of the mid- to late nineteenth century. For very many people this was a plausible explanation for the extraordinary providence shown by God to Victorian Britain.

(“The New Jerusalem”, Adrian Gilbert, pages 359-361)

13

Start and end of the "Seventy Years" according to the WTS

by Doug Mason in

the wts says that the seventy years started when a group of judeans, including jeremiah, crossed the border into egypt.

this, they say, was required since the land had to be absolutely and totally depopulated, without a human or a beast on the land.. one would thus expect that the wts would end the seventy years when the first captives crossed the border into the province of yehud.

that would mean that once again there were people on the land.. but no, the wts does not do that.

Doug Mason

Another prominent British Israelite was Charles Piazzi Smyth, then the Astronomer Royal for Scotland. He too had attended some of Wilson’s lectures and was convinced of the truth of what he heard because it chimed with another passion of his: pyramidology. The origins of this movement, which for a time ran in parallel with British Israelitism before being virtually taken over by it, go back to the work of John Greaves and his 1638 survey of the pyramids of Giza. As we have seen, from Greaves’s data on the measurements of the King’s Chamber Sir Isaac Newton had been able to work out that the ancient Egyptians must have made use of a particular unit of measure that he called the ‘profane cubit’ but which is now more generally referred to as the ‘royal cubit’. This cubit he worked out as being equivalent to 20.62 British inches, which implied it was 21 Egyptian inches - each Egyptian inch being only slightly shorter than the modern-day British unit. The implication of this discovery was that British units of measure owed their origins not to the Romans but rather to the Egyptians: the ‘fathers’ of geometry.

Newton further proposed that the Egyptians had also used a longer measure of 25 inches, which he called a ‘sacred cubit’. Evidence for this was not as obvious as for the other unit, and from the start it was treated with some scepticism. However, the idea was revived in the 1860s by John Taylor, editor of the London Magazine.Himself a skilled mathematician, he computed that the perimeter of the Great Pyramid was exactly 36,653.76 British inches, which could compute to 36,600 pyramid inches - each pyramid inch being slightly shorter than the British measure. To Taylor this implied that the Great Pyramid had been intended to be a species of calendar, with each 100 inches of its perimeter representing one day. On this analysis a full circuit of the pyramid symbolized 366 days, or approximately a whole year. Though the Royal Society rejected his paper on the subject, Taylor published his results in 1864 in a booklet entitled: The Great Pyramid: Why Was It Built? & Who Built It?Like others of his time, John Taylor was deeply influenced by the Bible and the apparent need to attribute knowledge relating to measures to divine influence. He died the same year that his book was published but his mantle was quickly taken up by Charles Piazzi Smyth, who had been in correspondence with him for some months prior to his death. Shortly afterwards Piazzi Smyth made his own survey of the pyramids, finding further proof that the Great Pyramid was designed not just as a calendar but as an almanac of the ages. He believed that the lengths of its internal corridors, as measured in pyramid inches, mapped out the course of world civilization, with each pyramid inch representing one year. The role of Britain as ‘Israel’ was read into the measures of mute stones, especially the Great Step at the top of the pyramid’s Grand Gallery. Summing up how the Grand Gallery symbolized the Christian era and the ascent of true Christians to the light represented by the messiah, Smyth felt able to write [the following] in all seriousness:

13

Start and end of the "Seventy Years" according to the WTS

by Doug Mason in

the wts says that the seventy years started when a group of judeans, including jeremiah, crossed the border into egypt.

this, they say, was required since the land had to be absolutely and totally depopulated, without a human or a beast on the land.. one would thus expect that the wts would end the seventy years when the first captives crossed the border into the province of yehud.

that would mean that once again there were people on the land.. but no, the wts does not do that.

Doug Mason

The following posts (if I get it right) are from pages of a book that includes this description of Piazzi Smyth.

Doug

13

Start and end of the "Seventy Years" according to the WTS

by Doug Mason in

the wts says that the seventy years started when a group of judeans, including jeremiah, crossed the border into egypt.

this, they say, was required since the land had to be absolutely and totally depopulated, without a human or a beast on the land.. one would thus expect that the wts would end the seventy years when the first captives crossed the border into the province of yehud.

that would mean that once again there were people on the land.. but no, the wts does not do that.

Doug Mason

Thank you guys for your support. I find it a most humbling experience.

Billy and Wobble, in the following post in this thread I shall share a passage about Piazzi Smyth.
--------------------
Aristeas, Also the people who wrote after Paul did, such as the "Gospel" writers, were very loose in their reapplication of their Scriptures. As Spong points out, they were expecting their leader to achieve great and wonderful things, but instead the Romans murdered him. How could this be? So they searched their writings for answers and they reinterpreted the passages, such as Isa 53 and Ps 22, to make it appear as if they had some prophetic intent. Much like the WTS does today, in seeing symbolisms and parables in Scripture as if they applied to them.

Are you aware of which NT writings are wrongly attributed to Paul and to Peter?

I have never been a JW but I was an SDA (cousins of the WTS) for about 16 years, so I am fully aware of what it means to belong to such an organisation and the mental stresses caused when leaving one. It took me at least 10 years to free my brain.

If I have not fully answered your question, please let me know.

Doug

112

The "patibulum" : a fragile theory !

by TheFrench in

the latin fathers of the church has never described jesus carrying a "patibulum".

indeed, the early christians to represent jesus carrying the "crux", not the "patibulum".

it's a fact.

Doug Mason

I am interested to know which was the earliest NT writing (chronologically speaking) that describes the trial, persecution and description of Jesus' death, when was it written, and by whom?

Paul was the first writer, and we know which of the writings were actually written by him. He died in the early 60s and the other writers came after him.

So who first described these events? How did they know what happened if they had run away? How did they know what happened during the trial? How do they know what Pilate's wife said? Were any of the eye witnesses still alive when the story of Jesus' last days were written down?

Doug

13

Start and end of the "Seventy Years" according to the WTS

by Doug Mason in

the wts says that the seventy years started when a group of judeans, including jeremiah, crossed the border into egypt.

this, they say, was required since the land had to be absolutely and totally depopulated, without a human or a beast on the land.. one would thus expect that the wts would end the seventy years when the first captives crossed the border into the province of yehud.

that would mean that once again there were people on the land.. but no, the wts does not do that.

Doug Mason

Thanks for your thoughts, aristeas.

I wonder if others can see a shift away from the WTS saying that the Parousia has occurred, or that the WTS was anointed in 1919? Do they no longer say this? If that is so, where is their anchor, their source of authority?

For decades I have felt that the value of looking at the subject of the neo-Babylonian chronology lies in its use as the foundation for determining 1914 and 1919 (the WTS earlier used Lev 26 instead of Dan 4).

Its value also lies in showing how the WTS organisation continually misquotes and misrepresents the authorities it supposedly quotes. Since it is easy to show that the WTS does this, that fact should help break the WTS's mental stranglehold and permit enlightened discussions.

Until and unless that happens, a JW believes the WTS because of whom and what it claims to be (Jehovah's sole channel of communication), rather than because of what it is saying.

When the JW sees that they are being deceived and lied to, that the organisation is waging theological warfare on its own followers, then it is possible to have an open discussion. Certainly no two people will agree on everything, but that should never matter. The WTS does not allow for personal views; I encourage them

I certainly do conduct very deep, serious and personally challenging study into the Biblical writings and I am more than keen to discuss my views.

I am not an eschatologist, nor am I interested in so-called prophetic fulfilment. Rather, my strong interest lies in discovering the immediate context of any writing (religious politics, secular politics, contemporary idiom, and so on), and knowing whether a writing is genuine.

Each Biblical writer was only addressing their immediate community, with the objective of influencing behaviour and attitude within that immediate community. With many of the NT writings, the writer was arguing against opposing views within the Christian community. Much of the NT writings are not what they purport to be; much is wrongly attributed. Most of the so-called NT fulfillments of the OT stretch the bounds of credulity.

Another area of great interest to me is the religious and secular politics that determined which NT writings were canonised. It took centuries before a decision was finally arrived at, and the Roman emperors had a say.

The religious expectation of an imminent divine appearance of Jesus (Yeshua/Joshua) has been taking place in every century since the first, and probably earlier. Even Jesus and Paul expected it to happen in their own time (this generation, then we who are alive, etc.). The expectations in every century of an imminent divine manifestation have had the same outcome -- zero.

I see the Bible as a human book.

But until we are able to break the nexus between the WTS and the JW's brain, such valuable discussions cannot commence. If you know of a better tool than neo-Babylonian chronology, I am more than keen to hear of it.

Doug

2

Corrections to my Study

by Doug Mason in

i have made two corrections to my recently announced study, "insights reliance on secular sources", which is available at:.

http://www.jwstudies.com/insight_s_reliance_on_secular_sources.pdf.

page 3: an unwanted word "the" near the bottom of the page.

Doug Mason

I have made two corrections to my recently announced study, "Insight’s Reliance on Secular Sources", which is available at:

http://www.jwstudies.com/Insight_s_reliance_on_secular_sources.pdf

Corrections.

Page 3: an unwanted word "the" near the bottom of the page. The phrase should thus read: "Most significantly for its purposes"

Page 20: Should read "568 BCE for the 37th year of his son Nebuchadnezzar."

I have corrected the online file.

Doug

13

Start and end of the "Seventy Years" according to the WTS

by Doug Mason in

the wts says that the seventy years started when a group of judeans, including jeremiah, crossed the border into egypt.

this, they say, was required since the land had to be absolutely and totally depopulated, without a human or a beast on the land.. one would thus expect that the wts would end the seventy years when the first captives crossed the border into the province of yehud.

that would mean that once again there were people on the land.. but no, the wts does not do that.

Doug Mason

The WTS rabbits on about the need for the land of Judah to be totally devoid of people and beasts for the full 70 years, even waiting until a group enters Egypt before allowing the period to start, yet it does not terminate the period when people return. The WTS waits until after the Returnees have settled into their communities, made their journeys in the land to Jerusalem, and then held a ceremony at the temple site. Even when, for the WTS, the destruction of the temple at Jerusalem did not mark the start of the 70 Years.

Doug

13

Start and end of the "Seventy Years" according to the WTS

by Doug Mason in

the wts says that the seventy years started when a group of judeans, including jeremiah, crossed the border into egypt.

this, they say, was required since the land had to be absolutely and totally depopulated, without a human or a beast on the land.. one would thus expect that the wts would end the seventy years when the first captives crossed the border into the province of yehud.

that would mean that once again there were people on the land.. but no, the wts does not do that.

Doug Mason

The WTS says that the “Seventy Years” started when a group of Judeans, including Jeremiah, crossed the border into Egypt. This, they say, was required since the land had to be absolutely and totally depopulated, without a human or a beast on the land.

One would thus expect that the WTS would end the Seventy Years when the first Captives crossed the border into the province of Yehud. That would mean that once again there were people on the land.

But no, the WTS does not do that. The WTS lets each Returnee settle into their own house, village and community, but the Seventy Years continues.

Then, after having settled down, each person makes the journey to Jerusalem, and yet the Seventy Years is still continuing, even though the land is now populated, settled with man and beast.

Not until people perform a ceremony at the temple site (surrounded by opponents), does the WTS end the Seventy Years. Does the Bible say this event marked its ending?

If the Seventy Years could not start until the “last person” had gone to Egypt, if the Seventy Years required the land to be without a person living in it, then how could it continue for such a long time after people had returned?

If the Seventy Years did not start when the temple at Jerusalem was destroyed, why did the WTS make the end relate to the temple?

Or is it significant that the time from the destruction of the temple to its rebuilding was 70 years?

Doug

2

Insight on the Scriptures relies on secular sources for 539 BCE

by Doug Mason in

after starting the previous thread i realised that i had been using firefox, so here it is through ie.. the chronology article in "insight on the scriptures" accepts from secular sources the date of 539 bce for the fall of babylon.

it must do so since it is not possible for pre-christian sources to provide dates in terms of present-day calendars.. .

the chronology article, however, denigrates the dates, source material, and chronologies employed by those who provide it with that date.. .

Doug Mason

Sorry. After starting the previous Thread I realised that I had been using Firefox, so here it is through IE.

The “Chronology” article in "Insight on the Scriptures" accepts from secular sources the date of 539 BCE for the Fall of Babylon. It must do so since it is not possible for pre-Christian sources to provide dates in terms of present-day calendars.

The “Chronology” article, however, denigrates the dates, source material, and chronologies employed by those who provide it with that date.

My study is available at:

http://www.jwstudies.com/Insight_s_reliance_o...

Doug